Ok this is not really a random survey at all. I have a very mixed bag of readers at this here blog, and I want everyone's opinions, not just the Christians like me. Here's the story.
Nathan attends a somewhat prestigious little "school" (daycare) three mornings a week. They are great, have lots of planned academic type activities and he loves it. Last week I got a letter that he would be "transitioning" into a new room, for older kids. That means over the course of a few weeks he will visit that room for short periods of time. Today was his first day to spend an hour there. His regular teacher told me they just had snack and circle time and he did fine. I got my normal daily report from her, as well as another daily report from his new room.
The new report caught my attention. It was decorated with Halloween stickers...no big deal. But among the six or eight activities he participated in, I noticed that the book they read was "5 Little Witches". Hmm. Then I saw that they played dressup with witch hats. Additionally it said they "ran around with a broom between our legs - like a witch." Hold on a second.
I realize witches are part of Halloween. But they are also part of a religion, and I take them very seriously. I know that Wicca is not an evil or satanic organization persay, but it is definately NOT Christian and it is very much a religion. I'm not outraged, I'm just a little offended and putoff. I am considering writing them a letter to explain this, just to point out the insensitivity. However my husband brought up a very valid point that they probably celebrate Christmas in this school. It is not a public school, after all. So now I'm very curious about how they will handle that, as well as Chanukah and Ramadan.
I am honestly NOT a believer in separation of church and state. I don't believe that concept is constitutional or was intended by anyone other than Thomas Jefferson, who said it. But it is the law of our land, constitutional or not. So do we teach kids aspects of all relgions, or avoid them altogether? Do we teach kids tolerance of our differences or avoid talking about the differences? Thoughts?????
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27 comments:
Wiccans don't wear witch hats, ride brooms, fatten up children for meals, or cast spells while chanting, "Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble."
And Jesus never wore a Santa suit.
Pick and choose your battles. Don't try to suck all of the fun out of a harmless occasion that most kids only see as a chance to dress up in something fun while getting as much candy as possible.
You're the parent. It only has to be serious and scary to your kids if you want it to be. Otherwise, it can be fun and special, and you can cherish photos and memories of them in sweet costumes.
Don't foist your cynical adult point of view on children. Let them be children for as long as possible. Love them and teach them the right things, and I doubt they'll ever wear pointy hats and ride brooms.
I tend to agree with Anon, and he/she said it much better than I could've. I think the comparison to Jesus and Santa is right on. (Then again, you may not do the whole Santa thing.)
We celebrated Halloween when I was a kid, and it never crossed my mind that it had religious connotations. It was all about the candy.
I agree with anonymous and Sharkey!
I think that all religions should be embraced, why not. What harm is done on educating our children on different beliefs.
I never have thought of halloween as anything other than little kids dressing up and getting candy. I love Halloween actually and it has nothing to do with any religion!
Definitly pick and choose your battles with the school and life in general. But again if it really bothers you then you should address it!
I agree with everyone above. Halloween is not about religion unless you make it so, and I doubt that at the school they're teaching kids about any religious connection with Halloween. If anything, they might be trying to make "scary" things (witches, ghosts, etc.) less scary to the kids. As long as Nathan sees Halloween as a fun time to dress up and get candy, I don't think it should be turned into anything else.
I agree with all of the above as well. let the kids play and have fun with the witches, it's Halloween. They learn it's about candy, no more then that.
I let my kids play soldier and with swords although I am a pacifist. They will grow out of it.
As for learning other religions. Go for it. We need to learn the other religions and embrace the good qualities. The good qualitities of all religions are to love one another.
Let me make a brief clarification. It is not Halloween in general that bothers me. I realize it is not a religious holiday and it is a fun time for kids to dress up and get candy. I'm never going to make it scary or make an issue out if it in front of my kid. It's the witches in particular. Christians are constantly told we are not allowed to talk about religious stuff in school, and often Christmas is called something other than Christmas for that reason. I certainly am not looking to create any sort of battle with the school, or anyone else. I just wonder if the school is aware of the issue at all. Just like people celebrate Christmas without Jesus, you can easily celebrate Halloween without witches.
We live in an oversensitive world. And too many people complain about the little things. That is why kids cannot sing christmas songs in school. why? because people complained. They felt left out and the cried and ruined it for everyone else.
And I agree with what the first Commenter said. Although I also think that you should read about the history of Halloween because it really is just a combination of traditions, NOT religions, and one of the traditions is based on All Saints Day which is very very Christian.
Then ask yourself if you would let you kid watch Little Mermaid or Hercules? Both based on the old Roman beliefs in different gods, (Not the one you and I worship).
I have to agree with everyone else.
at this point it definitely starts with the home and teaching Nathan what your family believes.
I think people make too much about the different holidays to where it is very PC these days and everyone gets offended. The masses will do specific things but the personal beliefs are for the home and should be taught there. As long as Nathan and your family have a good foundation of your beliefs I think Nathan will be good and you shouldn't worry about it.
many secular celebrations are a far cry from the spiritual, lacking in any real potentcy, yet still fulfilling cultural function by providing a doorway through which we can enter a dialogue about death (at halloween), just as at christmas we enter a dialogue about peace and goodwill toward men.
what is being taught in regards to halloween is not religious. it is cultural, and it is a fictionalized characterization. it has no real reflection on the religion or religious meanings related to halloween for practicing witches or many other related celebrations at this time of year (most focusing on the connections between the material and spirit worlds).
aside from that, the construct of separation of church and state is largely misunderstood. In order for there to be religious freedom, then the government cannot be 'attached to' or promote a certain religion.
this functions within a public school system (though not private) in a profound way. the administrators and employees of a public school cannot promote a particular religion over others. Individual administrators may practice their religion (any religion) in schools, but cannot teach their religion as an aspect of curriculum, because this is seen as the government--as the employer of the public school teacher or administrator--promoting a religion.
students, likewise, may openly practice their religions and speak about it if it is no disruptive to the educational processes of the school. students can also speak with teachers, individually, about their beliefs and practices--though the teacher must assert that this is not an official policy by the school, or that the school is in any way related to the religious practicse of the teacher.
No one is overtly discouraged from practicing their religion in school--and in fact a lot of recent court cases have allowed students to participate in self-lead prayer and scriptural study groups on school grounds, as long as the teacher (who is the 'coach' for the group) is not leading the group in any capacity. In california, a recent case allowed muslim students to discreetly leave the classrooms for their daily prayers (they pray 5 times a day at specific times).
also, many schools teach 'world religion' classes or 'world tradition' classes, and discuss the various premises and histories of a variety of religions--as an aspect of public school history and social studies curricula.
But in none of these cases is the government--via schools--promoting a single religion, and this is the process of the 'separation between church and state' which allows students and administrators to practice and share their faith and faith traditions, but not teach it in any 'official' capacity.
oh, and to teach kids about religious (and other) tolerance, we talk about differences and commonalities.
i have found that there are more commonalities than differencse myself. :)
I agree with teri that the foundation comes from the home. No question. And I agree with those of you who said we should teach kids about different religions, the commonalities and the differences. Absolutely, but this really only happens in the home anymore. Public schools up to grade 12 do not generally have world religion classes anymore. I wish they did. They have world cultures, which is different.
I am well aware of and totally agree with jenifer's statement about the establishment of a government religion. In theory, it makes all the sense in the world, but in practice, it has been trashed. I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement that no one is overtly discouraged from practicing their faith in school. Some court cases have upheld private practice of faith, while others have fundamentally disallowed it. Recently a first grader in a Marple Newtown school district elementary school was prohibited from reading from the Bible during his turn to share his favorite book with the class. His favorite book was the Bible. Instead he was handed a book about witches to read. The school's administration backed up the teacher. This is only the most recent personal example of a long list of ways Christians in particular are in fact discriminated against. Yes, I am sensitive to it. I wish we all practice freely. We now have freedom FROM religion, not freedom OF religion.
Halloween is a Christian holiday, (eve of all saints' day) and like most Christian holidays, there is a pagan aspect to it. I believe the pagan aspect was added by the early church to make these holidays more palatable to the pagans they were desperately trying to convert to Christianity.
Do you decorate your house with bunnies at Easter? Do you put up a Christmas tree at Christmas? Those are also both pagan symbols, too.
I agree with Anon from the first comment. Halloween is a fun thing for kids, and like Easter, it's all about the candy.
If they were pulling out Ouija boards at his school, that would be another thing entirely, IMO. But this is pretty harmless.
mainline mom - wow, I think it's totally wrong for them to stop that kid from reading from the bible if that's his favorite book and then to give him another book that he DIDN'T pick. what would happen if witches scares the crap out of him and that's just the book that they put into his little hands. idiots.
We could open up so many cans of worms on these issues......
my best friend goes through this. she tried giving her kids a really good foundation because they went through alot of domestic violence when they were kids, etc. and my friend does see that foundation being used today since her kids are in their early 20's. so it does happen.
maybe schools should keep it generic, no holidays, etc. but be sensitive if the kids need off from school during those specific holidays.
As your children grow they will be exposed to all sorts of things you may not agree with. Be ready to use these as teachable moments. Teach with confidence, as too often we Christians respond as if we are scared of these things.
It's easy to single out Halloween because of the imagery. But there are a lot of subtle things that are taught that are harmful. Remain involved with your children knowing what they are learning and let God lead you in how to respond.
Ask how other holidays will be handled. They may or may not celebrate Christmas. You'll only know if you ask.
Finally, as you point out, not all religions are treated equally. There is a recent case of a young girl who spent her recess in a corner by herself reading the Bible. She did not disrupt class or try to convert others. She simply read on her free time. The vice-principle told her this was against the rules.
i wrote a rather long post, but it vanished! :) so, i'll try again.
there are two points: 1. the case you mention and it's specific facts; and 2. the construct of 'freedom from religion.' to the first point, i agree that the ruling goes against the spirit of the construct of 'separation between church and state' and religious freedom. but, the second point will clarify also how it may be 'different' or outside of this construct.
One of the things worth noting is similar to the construct of halloween. many of the popular books that involve characters who are witches (such as harry potter) have no religious or spiritual import in regards to witchcraft. They are fictional texts, secular in nature.
In this case, i suspect that the teacher did not hand the child in question another religious text, such as raymond buckland's a guide to solitary witchcraft. to do so would be to violate the religious freedom laws, as an administrator of the government (school teacher) would be promoting one religion over another. Rather, i suspect that she handed the child a secular work that included fictionalized characterizations of witches that has no bearing on the religious aspects of neopaganism.
of course, i have no real understanding as to why the teacher would do this--unless it follows under the second point.
To this, I assert the belief that the child was presenting the book honestly 'i like the story of jonah and the whale' and not in a way that could be emotionally harmful to the other children through aggressive evangelism "i like this book because it teaches the truth about getting into heaven. if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell!"
It is this second case that is at issue in regards to "freedom from religion" but should be characterized more in terms of "freedom from harassment (hazing and bullying) by use of religion."
In my own history as a catholic, who also practices buddhism, aspects of vedic spiritual disciplines (though i'm not adverse to the scripture either), and has on many occassions been considered 'a witch' in the neopagan sense (though not necessarily something i'd call myself), i'm well aware of the emotional affect of religious-based bullying. As a catholic living in the 'bible belt' i was continually told that catholics were going to go to hell--and emotionally and sometimes physically harassed for this. on the advice of a priest, i began to attend buddhist meditation classes (and later dharma classes) in high school. i attended a catholic high school at the time and recieved harassment about buddhism (buddhist go to hell, if you turn your back on christ you go to hell, etc) from both teachers and students. I've had yogins and buddhists tell me that you can't "be both" and call me ignorant and foolish for 'trying to be both' and 'not being honest.'
I am also well versed in the effect of non-religious based bullying--both of which are quite painful.
many schools in recent years have been trying to address the issues of hazing and bullying in schools. In many cases, it has gotten completely out of hand--and no kid seems to be beyond being bullied.
if the actions of some of the parents that i've had contact recently are any indication, i can see why it's happening between children, honestly.
But aside from that, many schools have tried to stop any form of bullying--and aggressive evangelism can be considered bullying.
i consider it thus as well.
the difficulty, though, is that evangelism is an aspect of religious practice, and therefore an aspect of religious freedom.
but when that religious freedom negatively impacts the emotional space (or physical or spiritual space) of another individual, another child, which aspect should "win out?" the evangelical child's assertion about who is going to hell as both freedom of speech and freedom of religion or the recieving, audience child who has a right to be protected from emotional and physical abuse in a secular, educational setting?
this is the challenge of this issue, obviously!
Ok, so here is the complaint about the case I mentioned. I can't find the court's opinion online for some reason. But it clearly is not a case of religious bullying in any sense of the word. I am strictly opposed to religious bullying of any sort. In fact, I generally make it a point not to tell someone they are going to hell, even if they are...lol. I kid.
Seriously though, reading Psalm 118 can hardly be considered harassment. And being told reading the Bible is bad, and a Christmas tree is not a Christmas tree, but a Menorah is a Menorah, is harassment in my opinion. I just get frustrated by the mixed up laws and opinions we have in the name of religious "tolerance".
Btw, I'm well aware of the religious AND pagan origins of Halloween, and the other pagan aspects of religious holidays.
Dennis, your advice is a great point to remember, thanks.
Oops, I forgot to link the complaint...
http://www.rutherford.org/PDF/D.Busch.Complaint.05cv02094.pdf
as i wrote, i assumed that it was something innocent on the prt of the kid in the case--such as 'i like jonah and the whale' which is one of my personal favorites.
i don't recall any cases or examples that have been publicly reported of children in school being told that the bible is bad. And i don't know what the ultimatel ruling about school policy and the presence of religious texts in school.
I agree with all who said to use it as a teaching point (as well as the many things like this that will come up in the future.) I was raised in a Christian household, and my parents always taught me the "rights and wrongs". We didn't "celebrate" halloween, I didn't get to trick or treat as a child. I went to a Christian elementary school, and we had harvest parties, where we dressed up and shared candy. I was taught (at an older age than Nathan is, of course) that witches are real, and don't wear pointy hats and ride brooms. I learned that wicca was another religion just like Christianity is a religion.
With that said, when I have children, I don't plan on condemning holloween in general. I don't see the harm in dressing up and going door to door for candy. I plan on talking to my kids as they grow up and teaching them about the beliefs and values of Christianity.
As for the witches and it pertaining to a specific religion...and it's appropriateness in the school, I bet the school didn't think of it in that way. They just saw the stereotypical broom riding pointy hat witches as being a symbolic part of halloween "season". Just like at thanksgiving, they will probably make turkeys out of construction paper...easter will bring bunny or egg projects...and Christmas will have them reading stories about santa and reindeer.
I do think it is a little much to spend so much time dwelling on a theme of witches, which relates halloween to the wiccan religion. It would be the same as filling the day with activities centered around angels at Christmastime...that would tie the holiday to Christianity...and you know that would NEVER fly in a public school. I agree with you on being offended at this. It is a double standard if you really think about it. But there is a chance they didn't really think about it. School officials are so trained to flag anything related to Christianity in case of offending someone of another religion, that I think sometimes they don't realize the same things happen with other religions too.
If you feel the need to say something to the school, I would try to see if maybe it wasn't intentional. Your husband pointed out that they probably celebrate Christmas, but they probably don't celebrate it as the birth of Christ. Or bring any mention of baby Jesus...or angels...or nativity scenes into the classroom. Then point out the parallels with the witches as a part of the wiccan religion.
(I hope this makes sense)
sometrouble...it makes perfect sense and what you said is exactly how I feel! I am not picking a fight with the school, I was only considering pointing out the association to them in case they missed it. Since it's a new classroom for Nathan I think I'm going to ignore it, but I will be watching to see how they handle other holidays.
I agree with your first Anon commenter. Nik attends a private Christian school (says the non-practicing Christian ;)). At their Halloween carnival, they specifically request that there are no witches, because they are "scary." I think that's silly. I was a witch for many years.
Halloween is just a kid thing, where they get to eat candy. I mean, that's all it is in our house. And we do teach our kid about different religions and backgrounds, but they are probably too young at this point to get into all of the real stuff about where did Halloween come from. KWIM?
I mean, he's your kid, and you should do what your guy tells you to do, but I'd say, it's not a big deal at this point.
Isn't raising kids FUN?
I mean GUT, not guy. GAH.
I'm a little late with my 2 cents, but I do agree with anonymous.
As long as they're using a witch as a "scary theme" for Halloween purposes only, there is no harm.
What, only 23 comments so far? Geez.
At Nathan's age, I think the activity was more important for developing creativity and imagination. As stated before, we often use other Pagan symbols in celebrating other holidays.
I don't find the witches frightening at all. My word, some of the monster costumes out there scare the bejeesus out of me.
At his age, I don't believe he will understand that witchcraft is against your Christian beliefs. When he is old enough, explain it to him that real witches do exist, although they don't normally wear pointed hats and fly around on a broom. Keep saying those prayers at night, and you'll continue to educate him, teaching him the difference between reality and make-believe. I would only be concerned if the witches actually frightened him at this stage in the game.
I completely understand your points in general and sympathize with the harrassment issues in particular. I agree with anon, as well.
As for the school, I'm quite sure that they didn't give any focused thought to the witch thing. It was an activity relating to the current events of the day. End of story.
You are the parent and Nathan's best teacher now and forever. Pick your battles with the outside world carefully: there's never any shortage of those:)
I agree with the initial anon comment for the most part. Quite a few years ago, the local schools here made CNN for being among the first in the country to ban costumes of witches, ghosts, skeletons, hobos, werewolves, etc -- just about everything you'd associate with Halloween.
One positive is that your school let both boys and girls pretend to be witches.
Now, regardless of what I feel (as a Christian), I also don't think there is anything wrong with you telling the school administration what activities you don't want your child to participate in.
wow...there's really not much else to say, is there?
I think the witches were purely to illustrate the book they read. I'd wait and see what they do at Christmas before I said anything.
I agree with your point about how a Christmas tree isn't a Christmas tree, but a Menorah is a Menorah. Seems lopsided, somehow, doesn't it?
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